CLTFA February 10th, 2025 Meeting Agenda & Minutes
16:00 - Zoom (Link below)/In-Person (SB Only) Hybrid Meeting
Attendees: Shane Robinson, Matt Diamond, Chris Voss, Ray Kennedy, Jason Woods, John Hoadley, Cameron Cribben, Travis Weber, Ryan McGaffin, Rodger Healy, Alyson Santoro, Madison Cohen, Craig Jacobs, Miles Wallace, Travis Vaughan, Chris Smith, Zach Greenfield, Emma Akmakdijan, Tony Luna, Dan Mello, John Glawson, Mario Ghio
Notes: Ava Schulenberg
Agenda:
You will be removed from the membership list in all systems/stop receiving emails unless you pay your dues, thank you!
Lobster Trap Building - Jason Woods
Second Monday of April 9AM 4/14
Bioplastics Nereid Project - Alyson Santoro, Madison Cohen
I’ve surveyed a bunch of you but if anyone wants to weigh in on this topic here in this meeting please do
Tailing - Chris Voss
Chris is the President of the Commercial Fishermen of Santa Barbara and fished lobster for 30+ years before retiring a couple years ago
Fish and Game Commission Meetings
February 12th and 13th FGC Meeting - Sacramento
Cameron flying up for 2/13 only
March 13th MRC Meeting - Sacramento
Ava and Cameron will be attending in person
VP Update - Cameron Cribben
Cleanups
Emma Akmakdjian guest speaker
emmaakmakdjian@gmail.com (818)317-7385
VIMS Grant Application, submitted May 2024
Thank you to those who have already volunteered to help!
Timeline
Input requested
Spring in-person meeting options
Rotate between meeting in San Diego, OC, LA, and Santa Barbara each year
Meet halfway in Long Beach somewhere or Catalina again?
End of March or early April?
Grants
2025 Opportunities
South Bay Cable Committee Grant
Final application submitted 2/7
Seeking funds for MPA opposition advocacy and general infrastructure costs
Financials
2024 Statements For your review
$15,290.99 balance as of 2/9/25
CLTFA funds that were transferred to the State when the organization went dormant ~7 years ago
Ava submitted our official request for recuperation of unclaimed property last year to the CA State Controller’s Office: Can take up to 6 months to receive the funds ($15,092.36)
Accounting
Hiring a Bookkeeper
Michael Harrington?
Ava Raise
$30 to $35/hr
CLTFA External organizational memberships to potentially consider joining
Website
Social Media
John Hoadley - Updated logo option for 2025 merch
Classifieds
Open Discussion
Ray Starts the meeting at 16:05 on Monday, February 10th.
*All meetings/minutes are taken using Robert’s Rules of Order (written in past tense)*
Agenda:
Ray opens the meeting by thanking everyone for renewing their memberships and gives a high level overview of what we’ve been working on lately (MPA opposition advocacy, cleanups, domoic acid, grants, etc.); He explains that he has not been able to attend meetings lately due to his health issues and thanks those that have been able to go in his place (most frequently has been Cameron).
You will be removed from the membership list in all systems/stop receiving emails unless you pay your dues, thank you!
We are at about 40 members right now and last year were at 70, ideally we’d be at about 140 with every permit holder in the state but we’re not there yet so please encourage your fellow fishermen who haven’t joined to consider signing up.
If anyone asks you where their money is going when they pay dues, you can tell them that it’s not going anywhere and that funds are primarily reserved for any necessary legal fees (Sonke, etc.), overhead (website, mailbox rent, Zoom account, my staff time/travel costs which are split with CFSB, etc.), and are largely not spent at all. All nonprofits should operate whilst having a reserve of funds and as we are still getting back up on our feet, it’s good for us to be building that reserve in case grants aren’t awarded or a pressing issue arises (e.g. domoic acid) that requires quick defense on our part.
Feel free to send me contacts of folks who you think would benefit from me talking to them directly about our organization; Chris Smith has done this with a few guys who I was able to connect with over the phone and help inform them about what our goals are. It’s a lot easier to communicate what we’re all about by calling someone, so send me any contacts of guys you think might be interested (in lieu of me having an accurate list of all permit holders/their contact info) - I’m happy to reach out.
Once we have our stickers made, we will send them out along with a recruitment letter through Tom Mason with CDFW; He has agreed to help get the world out by distributing our materials to all permit holders which should hopefully help boost our membership.
Lobster Trap Building - Jason Woods
Second Monday of April 9AM 4/14
Jason is a lifelong commercial fisherman who fishes primarily out of Ventura Harbor; He is hosting this trap building workshop for any members of Commercial Fishermen of Santa Barbara, CLTFA, or the Ventura County Commercial Fishermen’s Association
His goal is to pass on the skills that were passed down to him so future generations feel equipped to build their own gear with confidence independently
Feel free to reach out to Jason if you are interested in attending; His number is (805) 708-0483 and his email is localharvestseafood@icloud.com
We thank Jason for hosting this important learning opportunity.
Bioplastics Nereid Project - Alyson Santoro, Madison Cohen
I’ve surveyed a bunch of you but if anyone wants to weigh in on this topic here in this meeting please do
Alyson and Madison are researching potential commercial fishing gear options to build a prototype for a bioplastic alternative product (e.g. baiters, escape ports, etc.).
Alyson introduces herself and explains a little more about the project and thanks the group for having her and Madison on our call.
Ray emphasizes that this project has a lot of merit and we ought to approach it with an open mind because we don’t want more plastic in the ocean and we don’t want to be the culprits of putting plastic in the ocean that doesn’t biodegrade so if there’s a solution here that could be great; We applaud Nereid’s efforts.
Shane asks if they have looked into Fathoms Plus/Spot Prawn gear/recreational gear? Alyson says no but it’s a great suggestion and she will follow up with Ray for more information.
Shane emphasizes that there are more monetary opportunities in the larger fisheries/recreational sector bu Alyson says contacting manufacturers has been met with a lot of resistance because they have no motivation to change at all so starting on the customer side of things was part of their thinking versus going to a company that already makes things for fishermen has been more challenging because their response is why would they change so need to see more pressure from the customer.
Ray says manufacturers should be on board with the idea because if Fathoms Plus made a trap that lasted 3-5 years, then people would have to buy more traps after that shorter time period versus a trap that lasts 20 years.
Alyson explains that they didn’t choose to be interested in working with our group because we’re the “biggest waste contributors in the ocean,” or because we are the biggest market, they are just interested in working locally before potentially branching out.
If you’re interested in contacting Alyson/Madison directly to learn more about their research, here are their emails: asantoro@ucsb.edu, mscohen@ucsb.edu
Tailing - Chris Voss
Chris is the President of the Commercial Fishermen of Santa Barbara and fished lobster for 30+ years before retiring a couple years ago (his son James now has his permit)
Chris says CDFW sent all permit holders a questionnaire about how the fleet felt about tailing a few years back and the results were mixed so they dropped it; Chris thinks the questionnaire was poorly formulated and there wasn’t a complete understanding of the fleet of the rationale and the fact that it was just an option.
The work CDFW did was around turning a reasonable tail width corresponding to the carapus length minimum.
This round of tailing would probably be done in a certified facility and the product would be sold, like a lot of lobsters around the world, into a global tail market.
The reason this topic is relevant and resurfacing now is because we’re seeing the worst price we’ve had in over 10 years; $12 or $13 is a terrible price and all that tailing does (in Chris’ opinion) is puts a floor on the value of the lobsters that we catch.
Everybody knows a live lobster is worth more than a tail that’s not the question here; The question here is if you have the ability to have lobsters 365 days a year in a frozen form that can be transported around the world at lesser expense to the processor, there’s a chance they can give you a better price so that’s the calculation here.
Historically in the past 10-15 years this fishery has been dependent on a thriving live international market (primarily China), and that’s a really weak thing for us all to be dependent on because that can change we could lose that market at any time, so having some (permissible) flexibility of the form in which we can sell our product is a valuable thing whether we utilize that flexibility or not in case things become unraveled which this year is a prime example of how that can happen.
Chris has been talking to CDFW again - He says they did a lot of preliminary analysis for this idea originally and they wrote up a proposal that included some of the characteristics that he’s described where certified buyers (4 or 5 big exporters in the state and we’re all selling to one of them or the other or doing some direct marketing where we can) but in general, the best price is what gets exported (this year aside).
Chris has spoken to Talib, Gabriel (Kingfisher), and Dave Rudie in San Diego and there’s an awareness on the buyers part that this isn’t a bad thing for them to have in their pocket so it could be to our advantage to just pursue this and have it, don’t necessarily have to use it if the live markets are thriving then we don’t have to take the tail off (this is where the misunderstanding has come from in recent years because people might think that just because tailing is allowed does not mean that it’s required, it’s just an option, and that is an important distinction).
Chris says he spoke on a beach in New Zealand to one of the largest Lobster Quota holders in their country, and he asked him if he had seen a huge price increase by being able to sell his product globally live in the last decade and he said no and that he’s been getting a huge price all along because his isolated location where he catches his lobsters on the West Coast of the Southern Island of NZ he’s been tailing the for years and getting a high dollar price in the global tail market so he didn’t even see a big distinction in what he was getting in the global tail market versus what we get in the live market and now he sells into the live market too but it wasn’t a big dollar value difference so that’s coming from a different part of the world with a very comparable lobster to ours.
Chris says the forces that caused our price to drop while we all probably know this, has been a weak economy in China, the Australians are now selling into China, these are pretty reliable realities; The Australians hadn’t been selling to China for a while because of their trade issues around human rights violations and today we’re seeing an increased trade war with the Chinese that has impacted our price in the past and may cause a decrease on our price moving forward so that’s where we are right now and he understands people have had concerns in the past, so he urges a discussion.
Shane asks about the recovery on a 1.5lb lobster for example - Is it ⅔ tail and ⅓ carapus as far as the meat goes or how much meat are you going to get off a 1.5lb lobster? Chris says it’s just the weight of the tail so you still have the shell on it; Chris says it’s about a 60% recovery.
Shane asks what would the consumer have to pay to make it worthwhile for the wholesaler/retailer and for the fisherman? Chris says any of us who has a phone can get online and search “frozen lobster tail prices” to get a gauge of the market and the range of what customers are typically paying.
If you make an effort to find out what the global frozen tail market is, keep those realities in mind so it’s New Zealand and Australia who have the similar lobsters to us so if you’re trying to determine what the base price of lobsters is for the consumer in a frozen form, make sure you focus on those comparable countries.
Chris thinks it’s about $40-50/lb for frozen lobster tails right now for the end customer so you can take whatever figure it is in a given moment and work backward to determine the other dollar figures. John Hoadley looks it up and says it’s $95 right now for two 8-10 oz frozen NZ lobster tails.
Shane asks how the fisherman would get paid as far as someone that has to process the animal. Do we get paid by pound off the boat or recovery on the tail?
Chris says we all can sell who whoever we want to but whoever that may be, they all are trying to make the most out of what we give them, and we all know the best way to make money with lobster is to get them to some far away location alive whether it’s China or Singapore or Taiwan because those are the places where our lobsters are worth the most and they’ve got to be alive, but that isn’t necessarily always going to be an option and that’s why he’s saying that the tailing option has benefits.
Chris says the important thing to remember is that tropical lobsters don’t get a very high price in the global market so you’ll see Australian tails sold as a low value product sold all over the world.
The product that we produce with its red shell and the fact that it’s cold water lobster is considered insanely consistent and of high value to all the people who are picky about which lobsters they eat.
Miles says there will also be a big reduction in the amount of cost on shipping; That’s where our margin will come back up. Ray says this is a good point.
Chris says Oregon and now CA too have passed a Senate Bill (SB82 he thinks) this year regarding evisceration in the northern part of the state for the Dungeness Crab fishery; Guys can still fish in areas that have a high concentration of domoic acid as long as they eviscerate the crabs. Oregon has the same program so this might be worth researching because what this could enable us to do is when they close a region like they did recently in Orange County last season, those guys could have continued to fish if the place they sold those fish had the ability to eviscerate them; You can’t eviscerate lobsters unless you separate the carapus from the tail (that’s how this is all connected); Don’t know how that would’ve played out and if anyone liked that methodology but his point is that it could also be an option in terms of being able to continue to fish even if they find areas that have high domoic acid concentrations that are subject to closure.
Ray says as far as tailing lobster, it could solve some of the early season glut that happens where we always run into a brick wall where everybody goes fishing (he says he tries to educate people on this all time), the reason this happens generally in the beginning of the season is because the CA agents for the Chinese buyers do not want to/will not book air flights because as soon as they book the flights, they have to pay for that regardless of if they send 100 lobster or 0 lobster, so they tend to delay things and has he has seen for 35 years, the tanks fill up and they drop the price in he first week. If we had this option where we were actually taking those extra lobsters and tailing them and freezing them and had other options for marketing them in the long run they could sell a lot of them.
Chris says that is true and then asks Rodger if he remembers a phone call they had about the dynamics at the end of the season with buyers being concerned about being able to ship their products live and there was a desire for them to extend their ability to hold live product an additional week after the season?
Rodger says yes and even though he and Chris usually butt heads on everything which is great because it makes the fishery healthy, he completely agrees with him in this context and the empowerment part of this is what his angle always has been.
Rodger says for the newer guys that might not have fished in 2020, when COVID hit, it hit in March and China obviously shut down completely and so did the world so anyone that fished until the end of the season, they were stuck with lobsters; Local markets shut down and there was no exporting, so like Chris said, we have a myopic market that’s gobbled up largely by the Chinese.
Rodger thinks we have a robust and dynamic local market but the problem is that everyone that has ever sold a local lobster, whole live is the biggest problem of that issue because restaurants don’t want to deal with the processing piece but if you bring a tail to them, they could take it in a heartbeat.
Rodger says the domestic market for tails is strong but we can’t compete with it because you can go to Costco and get a tropical or Australian lobster tail that’s already saturated our market; He says the Charthouse is a prime example because you could never sell them a local whole live lobster because they don’t want to deal with it. They want a freezer full of tails so when someone orders 10 that night they can take 10 out or 20 or 30 or 50 or 0, but they can’t do that with a whole live lobster, so giving us more avenues to market our product and right now the $13 price is an insult to any lobster fishermen who’s fishing right now, if we were tailing we could be getting a hell of a lot more and whether you want to base the price per pound for the meat or the whole body, you’re the marketer if you’re doing it direct, he would believe this is the way it would work is the fishermen’s retailer or going through a processor you set the price.
Rodger says the disparity will be based on size for example Cameron who fishes in San Diego there might not be as many lobster that qualify to be tailed because they catch a lot of lobsters that are legal size (1-1.5lb) whereas the Santa Barbara guys have an average that’s larger so their catch might qualify more for the size minimum of tailing so there’s a little bit of disparity based on that but in the end, Cameron wins if the market doesn’t get flooded at the beginning or any time with the export and the guys in SB are tailing and distributing the tail and plus if you get more tails out in the local market, it’s going to make people want to buy a whole live lobster as well and hopefully get less squeamish about processing one.
Dan says he is in total agreement with both Rodger and Chris and says measuring the tail before you tail it that’s key you can’t use that size limit of the tail after the fact if it's close or 1 or 2% that didn’t qualify and make sure you measure the tail size before you tail it and he would suggest don’t even tail anything under 1.5lbs, that way if enforcement comes down on you it’s obvious that it’s a legal tail. Not to mention, males are so much smaller than females and that was a point that he wanted to make to a previous speaker that it’s ⅓ of the weight versus half the weight between male and female lobsters.
Dan also says definitely don’t open tailing up to sport fishing because it would cause a lot of issues.
Dan says maybe an approved facility is the right idea maybe for example at the end of the month if you want to take your lobsters into an approved facility and tail 1000lbs to make it worthwhile for you and the facility that’s got to be an approved CDFW facility where after you’re done tailing them, you vacuum pack them, and put a LOT/LON number inside the bag and your number gets registered that way if enforcement ever asks questions it’s legally traceable.
Chris says yes Dan is right, and this is done all over the world and can be done here it’s just getting CDFW to help us figure it out.
Chris emphasizes Rodger’s point about empowerment and how if tailing is allowed it gives the fisherman the power to market their own product that’s been legally, certifiably processed and of the right size limit, that’s all open if we pursue it and they approve it; Historically, CDFW cited “fishermen opposition” as the reason they didn’t allow it to happen last time, but they also worded that questionnaire very poorly that pissed him off and he told them that they gamed the way they asked each question so that everyone was motivated to respond negatively to the option and he has criticized them repeatedly to their face(s) for having done that and this time around we may be able to get the mto allow it if we don’t have any strong voices of opposition from within our fleet.
Rodger agrees and says with the questionnaire/survey, they tried to do their best but they formulated it in such a tricky way even he was negative on it, it lacked direction and focus and in the end, CDFW are proponents of simplicity so his initial desires for tailing lobsters that involved more complex elements like tagging, etc. would not work because the bottom line if you want this to be allowed if you have to keep things simple in what we’re asking for.
Dan says if Chris really wants to push his agenda for CDFW, you talk about taxes and how we’re paying taxes on $13 that’s going to get resold for $30 or $40 and those taxes aren’t half of what hey could be if they would allow us to get that price increase and to add to Rodger’s point, it’s a cheap (~$90?) permit to be able to sell your catch off the boat and he has sold his catch off his boat and walked it up to the customer’s house with them and tailed it for them and it’s a pain but the more lobsters you can keep out of the Chinese market, the higher our price is going to go.
Dan says he doesn’t want to unionize and what we have going on here is going in the right direction with the Association, but times like this, don’t know if you want to cut the season but next year will be an epic season because a lot of people quit early because of the price (he says 10 of his friends quit in December when the price dropped) and next year if the price is the same, the problem will be worse.
Rodger agrees that sport fishermen should not have the tailing option because he doesn’t want them tailing lobsters out in the water from one of his traps and then bringing it in and stuffing it in their wetsuits or whatever so it should be commercial only, but his other concern is Mexico. Will Mexico tail lobsters all summer long and save them to try and dump on our markets and other markets?
Rodger says another issue to be aware of is CDFW will want everything landed in whole weight, not tail weight so they will all have to be landed before they’re tailed and probably have that corresponding landing ticket with the tail but those semantics can be discussed later.
Matt asks if we do end up using facilities to process would it be a privately owned facility that’s guided under CDFW or would it be our own facility? Shane says maybe Get Hooked could help?
Chris says right now whoever you sell to that exports, they will tell you they have 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 permits to export the way they do; It’s a lot. Chris says we don’t want to create another layer but fishermen can’t tail the lobster that’s just not practical. The facilities that currently package your lobsters and export them would be taking on an added cost because you are going to have some type of health dept approved facility to do this (it will all need to be highly regulated and controlled).
On that topic, Rodger says there are other local options too like Tunaville down in Point Loma, anybody that has a health certified processing kitchen and compliant permits would work.
Cameron agrees and says the last thing we should try to do is give the big power houses more power by giving them more control over our destiny is something we need to be careful about.
Chris says back to Shane that Get Hooked might actually be an option then.
Tony says some of us are talking like we’re going to get to tail our own lobsters and sell them which is not the case - We will have to have somebody else process who will charge a fee if they give us back our lobster tails to market ourselves otherwise they’re just going to buy them from us like they always do and he thinks that was part of the verbiage in the original questionnaire is we’re still going to sell to them as a whole product so the processors/buyers they’re the ones who are going to get to tail it and stockpile lobsters and open up that market unless we pay the facility to do it for us and give us the tails back, well now we’re wholesalers again, so he thinks there’s this gray area where we’re falling between where we think somehow we’re going to be able to tail them and stockpile them distribute them which he doesn’t think is the case unless you’re willing to jump through all those hoops and get all those certifications and permits that they make you get. Tony wholesales as it is so he is all for it but as a fisherman, the buyers could still take it from us and they’re the ones who are doing the tailing and have the extended market/marketability, which Miles says would translate into a higher price given to the fisherman? Tony says possibly. Miles says that’s the incentive here is you want to be able to open up markets in other places besides China and that equates to better sales and higher prices. Tony agrees but says still as a fisherman you’re going to still be selling to whoever you sell to because they’re going to have the warehouse/facility and they’re going to tail it and put it in their freezer and they’re going to sell it all summer long, are they really going to pay us more or the same low price? Tony is for it and wants the fisherman to hold the most cards of course, he is just playing devil’s advocate here. Tony says this option makes for a sort of de facto longer season and he agrees with Rodger’s example of the Charthouse because the restaurants that he sells fish to in the summertime don’t want to deal with whole live products; They want what’s easiest/safest always.
Ray says when the options are: Cut your season short or take advantage of a tailing option, it makes all the sense in the world.
Ray says he brought this up 25 years ago with CLTFA and he tried to run this through and CDFW was not willing to consider it at all at that point but may be getting more open minded now.
Rodger says this recent shift is probably attributed to the increase in data we have especially in size differentials between sexes/regions.
Rodger says Tom Mason with CDFW brings up tailing to him frequently so there must be some incentive/interest for them to want to do it as well.
Tony says if we want to move forward with this we need to come up with a size (width, length, weight, whatever), we tail them, we can keep them fresh, why do we have to take it to a facility just for them to tear the head off?
Miles says he doesn’t think that’s what they’re talking about with a facility he thinks it’s more about the certified kitchen with proper licensing. Tony says can you process your fish on the back of the boat? Miles says you can gut and gill them, so Tony says exactly, this would be the same ideal concept with the lobsters because it’s not like you’re filleting them, but to be able to have the permission to legally tail them yourselves as fishermen is the goal. Miles agrees 100% and says he would rather tail his own to direct market them.
Tony says let’s push for that. It might be a stretch because they might enforce the certified facility element instead of allowing the tailing to take place on the boat; Shoot for the moon and settle for what we can get.
Rodger says being involved in this from early on, CDFW’s concerns weren’t as much the health department side of things so much as they were concerned with the size and how we would do it; We’re getting stuck in the mud that might not be an issue whatsoever.
Miles says as a group, we should come up with exactly what we want from CDFW instead of having a questionnaire go out that’s convoluted. If we have a solid checklist of what our needs are, that would appeal to him.
Tony agrees and says give us the size requirements, we can keep everything fresh or on ice, slush whatever, they can board us and measure tails if they have to.
Dan says the male lobster and female lobster are roughly the same weight but the tail of the male is much lower so if you’re going to play the market you sell all your males and keep all your females.
Tony agrees but says sometimes at the end of the season all you get are big males so you might have to sell males at some point and it would be good to have a standard for both.
Rodger says if you buy Australian tails, and flip them over they’re male and female but all the same size, so you’re going to forego some of these males unfortunately you’re going to be stuck with them and not be able to tail them because of a smaller width but maybe CDFW would make 2 separate sizes but then unfortunately you will have to flip them over if you roll them into a ball are you going to have to unfreeze them to open them up? Tony says that’s a good point and maybe we should have just 1 legal size and if you get a male that makes the cut great tail what you can and sell the rest whole live; Simpler is better.
Tony says give us the size and tell us what we have to do, he doesn’t like the facility thing.
Chris says a good idea is to draw up a plan to potentially petition for this to change the regulation; He thinks that might be open to us but in that process we would have to present some comprehensive and agreed upon terms, so this Association needs to look at an outline of this idea that we can all agree on without too much detail so we don’t get bogged down and tangled up.
Chris says trying to just use the tail width as a means to empower individual fishermen to treat their own product so they can direct market it through frozen tail markets is a good idea but knowing we might get push back on that, but at the very least present that as what the petition is pursuing he thinks that’s how we should proceed.
Matt asks about measuring the tail width; Chris says the idea is you select a tail width that’s so big that there’s a low likelihood that it would ever correspond to a short lobster so the tail width is really conservative (it’s huge); You don’t even need the carapus anymore because that big fat tail width is 99.9% legal.
Dan says this is petty but you always see that 1 or 2 a day that has that cancerous part on the carapus but it’s a huge lobster; Chris says maybe you could have a tail gauge as well then.
Chris says as a side note, in NZ there are carapuses thrown densely in the bushes because no one left the beach with their whole lobster they just did their tail measurement and tailed and threw the rest in the bushes.
Hoadley says he has a few meat markets that have been contacting him like high end meat markets and they want to be able to tail the lobster after he sells it to them and that’s allowed right? Cameron says no, and they have to be in the whole form.
Hoadley says how can that be though because they own it? Cameron says even at a restaurant they have to be sold whole; Ray adds to this saying that they have to be prepared for immediate consumption (can’t be tailed and frozen in the restaurant from their use even though they own them).
Dan says as tanks go, he just bought a 50 gallon tank for $3,000, if anyone is interested he’ll sell it to you for $1,000 and then you can sell them whole out of your backyard 😀
This was a very constructive and valuable discussion - The group feels good with this consensus. I will send a follow up email about this; We clearly want to take control of the questionnaire piece.
Please note, since this meeting on Monday 2/10, I brought this up during public comment at the Fish and Game Commission Meeting on Thursday 2/13 (see minutes here) and Susan Ashcraft and I have a meeting this week to discuss next steps. I won’t take any official action, we are just going to have a discussion about how I can help best guide this process forward between our 2 groups. More to come soon - Hopefully this can be an expedited request with potential for use by next season.
Fish and Game Commission Meetings
February 12th and 13th FGC Meeting - Sacramento
Cameron flying up for 2/13 only
March 13th MRC Meeting - Sacramento
Ava and Cameron will be attending in person
Dan asks that we don’t propose anything to be discussed on an agenda for an MRC meeting that we can’t be at because we’re stacking gear out at this time.
I reassured him we’re not proposing anything but will be there to engage primarily in the MPA conversation that was already on the planned agenda (it’s very doubtful that they would include anything about tailing with that tight a turnaround between when Susan and I meet on the topic this week and the 3/13 meeting).
VP Update - Cameron Cribben
Ava gives some context that the CLTFA Board has a group text that we are very active in and each board member gives updates about what’s going on in their respective ports; We discuss topics weekly sometimes daily and lately Cameron has been doing a lot of advocacy work with Commissioner Samantha Murray so that’s why this topic is on our agenda here because I want him to share a little bit to broader membership base about the important work he’s been doing.
Cameron says he’s attended every meeting since the bins and closures were proposed and even when it doesn’t seem like there’s much that pertains to us on an agenda, there are still all these NGOs sliding in to public comment and that’s why he flies up because these paid representatives are super good at it and it’s their job to be there to promote shutting us down and for us it’s important to show face and say hey look we have a problem with these petitions.
Cameron says Samantha Murray has surprisingly been very receptive to him and has been lobster fishing with him once and he has gone to a couple events for her students; He says she has a pretty strong passion for local seafood which counters kind of everything most of us feel about how she thinks.
Cameron says it’s going to be really important starting on this March 13th MRC meeting that as a lobster fleet, we have a representative for every potential closure that they’re petitioning for. He fishes Point Loma but his knowledge doesn’t expand far enough for Santa Barbara or Dana Point for example but in March we’re going to see what the department’s recommendations are for these petitions and he thinks it’s going to be super valuable for us to have one person from SB, Long Beach, Dana Point, etc. to counter these petitioners because at these MRC meetings, it’s really collaborative - They’ll talk about a petition and at any time you can defend or speak on your closure and as soon as you do one of these NGOs are going to come up right behind you and tell you why they should close it.
He thinks this next stretch of meetings is the most important time to defend our waters the most which I agree with.
Cameron says he recently met with Laura Deehan who works for Enviro CA and is the petitioner for the Cabrillo/Point Loma closure and he asked her why they chose that area because we have a thriving fishery and a strong kelp bed and she said that’s why - You have a thriving ecosystem and that’s why we want to protect it. Cameron says but there’s no science, that’s there science, and because of that Cameron says he feels pretty good about this it’s just that we need to be there to say why and not attack the Commission because it is a vote of 5, and so telling any of them to fuck off will only yield in a vote against us so we need to maintain composure, articulate ourselves, and maintain a strong representation of our fishery well if we want this to go our way in the end.
Cameron says Point Loma is his crab gear his lobster gear his sport business it’s his entire world so if it closes, it’s over for him and everything is on the line. He understands that we’re all busy and it’s hard to make the time to get up to Sacramento but what’s the point of any of it if there’s no fishing grounds left because we didn’t fight hard enough?
I touch upon the topic of travel funds regarding our recent grant application to the South Bay Cable Committee which is its own topic below so I will place those notes there accordingly
Ray and others on the Zoom thank Cameron for all he has been doing, it’s extremely admirable and we’re grateful for all the advocacy work he has shouldered.
Cameron says he is all for it and he says it’s been unanimous across our board to support my travel funding for these meetings; He clarifies that he covers all his own expenses though and doesn’t ask the association to pay for anything. He says that making sure we have a steady presence/facetime and also accurate notes is super important (I agree).
Dan agrees and says continuity is everything.
Ray brings up giving me a raise here which I will write the details of below under agenda item 19.
Cleanups
Emma Akmakdjian guest speaker
Her contact info is emmaakmakdjian@gmail.com (818) 317-7385
Emma reached out to the Commercial Fishermen of Santa Barbara about her desire to help cleanup traps and I figured it would be best to have her come to one of our meetings versus CFSB since we are obviously a trap-specific association; I met with her in person a few weeks ago and learned about her affinity for cleaning the ocean and also creating art with debris she collects from her cleanup efforts.
Emma introduces herself and says her background is in art and she has created a lot of pieces so far with traps/rope that she’s collected from Santa Cruz and Santa Rosa Island (she has several jobs but one one of them is working for the Santa Rosa Island Research Center); She is also an art professor at Pepperdine University and has been a SCUBA diver for nearly a decade.
Right now she is working at CSU Channel Islands as their Marine Debris Coordinator for cleanups so she saw this opportunity to meet with me and learn more about how she could be of help and potentially stop some traps from washing ashore with dive efforts. If there’s any way she can assist, she wants to help.
Chris asks who funds the CSUCI cleanup program? She says it’s funded through the National Marine Sanctuary Foundation and in the past it’s been funded through NOAA; They do transect surveys and the types of waste that wash ashore and then they pick up all the extra stuff as well. She is relatively new to the role but has been volunteering on that project for about 5 years before she took a legitimate job coordinating for them and it’s run through the Santa Rosa Island Research Station.
She’s not a sport fishing diver she likes to just dive for the sake of diving
Emma clarifies that her efforts would not be through any of her jobs and that it’s just something she wants to do in her own time because she’s so interested in diving and reducing waste.
Rodger says from a legal perspective, anybody that boards a commercial lobster fisherman’s vessel and is going to be diving to recover lost traps has to be a licensed crew member, whether the association would want to pay for that for Emma or not we can figure that out but you can’t just hop on anybody’s boat so he makes sure she is aware of that.
Emma thanks Rodger for this reminder and says this was one of the first things she worried about and she contacted CDFW to see what was allowed and they gave her approval to have tanks on board but she didn’t get more clarity from them regarding licensing.
Emma asks if commercial crew licenses are difficult to get? We tell her no and that it’s just an online fee.
Rodger says the negotiation was that now they are allowed to have SCUBA gear on the boat and recover gear (in addition to being able to get something out of the prop, etc. which was the original reason for asking for this allowance).
I will look into potentially using some of our VIMS funding (because it is such a large sum) to help cover Emma’s crew cost if the Board approves of that small allocation when the time comes.
Tony says technically the law says if you are assisting in the commercial take of lobster you must have a lobster because you can have somebody on board as long as they’re not cutting bait or doing any part of the job which he confirmed with CDFW, so that’s a fine line and want to be careful with rules and insurance etc. but he hopes this work out because we get our gear cut off all the time and this partnership with her and her help could be really valuable to recover traps in the water before they get swept onto the beaches and just by putting another rope and buoy on them you’re not really “harvesting” lobster so maybe there’s some gray area/loophole to the permit piece we can further flesh out.
Ray emphasizes that CDFW won’t give us a hard time about cleaning up traps and that’s never something they want to give grief about so he thinks they would be pretty lenient with anything we do on a boat to clean up.
Rodger comes form a more conservative side because he was part of the original FMP negotiation process and does not want to come off like he’s putting the kibosh on the idea just wants to make sure we’re all aware of any risks with not taking those rules into consideration, even if it is a cleanup effort that’s in good faith.
Ray recently learned that even traps that are within 100 yards of the water line are still considered to be abandoned in state waters even if they end up on the beach so for anyone who tends to ignore the traps that are washed up on the beach, you’re still technically fishing that trap even if its 100 yards up the beach away from the water.
Rodger says once the season ends and you have that abandonment area then anyone can go out without the necessity of a permit.
Ray says they are very understanding iht our efforts to keep our beaches clean and to minimize trap loss because it’s a primary concern of this fishery.
Emma mentions that she did not know that lobster fishermen (most anyway) build their own traps and as an artist that only deepened her appreciation for the traps and her desire to preserve/recover them; She says if you don't have to make 100 new ones for example every season that’s got to be a huge time/money saver.
VIMS Grant Application, submitted May 2024
Selected for funding, very exciting as it’s our first Federal Grant!
Thank you to those who have already volunteered to help
You will see in the materials in the Google Drive linked above that I allocated the largest pool of funds to go to fishermen participating so hopefully that helps incentivize folks to participate who might not have otherwise been able to without the funding option; Want to make it clear that that is what this grant is all about, getting more fishermen to clean up gear versus NGOs etc. - We don’t ever want to give them that power or that ability to hold that over us; Cleanups are low hanging fruit in terms of something that helps avoid widespread general public opposition.
Timeline
Input requested on what works best for you
Our organized cleanup efforts will officially begin once the season ends, most cleanups will take place over the summer/early fall when the weather is most optimal.
Spring in-person meeting options
Rotate between meeting in San Diego, OC, LA, and Santa Barbara each year
Meet halfway in Long Beach somewhere or Catalina again?
End of March or early April?
The group decides on early April (The weekend of the 5th or 12th?)
Ray thinks rotating is a great idea and maybe we start with a middle spot for this year and we can see how we feel each year.
Matt says that’s what they do with the Sportfishing Association (SAC) and they have their meeting typically in Long Beach since it’s the middle ground between us in SB and San Diego.
Rodger says Long Beach will be more affordable and easier to find space.
I bring up the fact that we might want to wait to see how much funding we receive (if any) from the Cable Grant for travel purposes because that could help shape our decision of where we want to/are able to go.
Craig says he can probably get Lawrence who owns Berth 55 Restaurant in Long Beach to rent us the palace for free - He will probably just ask that we order some food/drinks after/during our meeting at his seafood restaurant; It’s a big place with a bar and everything we could need according to Craig.
Grants
2025 Opportunities
South Bay Cable Committee Grant
Final application submitted 2/7
Seeking funds for MPA opposition advocacy and general infrastructure costs
If we are awarded this funding, it would be a great way to cover the cost of fishermen’s flights, fuel, hotels, food, etc. for their time spent advocating; We always want to incentivize more fishermen having a seat at the table for these extremely important discussions. What I stressed to the Cable Committee in our application is exactly what Cameron said earlier that there is no point in doing anything we do fishing wise unless there’s a future to continue doing it in, and that requires our presence and engagement in these meetings because if we aren’t there to speak up and voice our opinions, no one else will.
Financials
2024 Statements For your review
$15,290.99 balance as of 2/9/25
CLTFA funds that were transferred to the State when the organization went dormant ~7 years ago
Ava submitted our official request for recuperation of unclaimed property last year to the CA State Controller’s Office: Can take up to 6 months to receive the funds ($15,092.36)
I have asked for an update several times since the point of submission months ago but have not heard any update from their office yet; I’ll follow up as soon as I’m made aware of any update
We are focusing on building our reserves/general funds right now primarily so we can be proactively prepared to procure any legal action if the need arises.
Accounting
Hiring a Bookkeeper
Michael Harrington?
Michael is our bookkeeper for the Commercial Fishermen of Santa Barbara and might be a good option to pursue as our funds continue to grow because at this point I have been YouTubing my way through basic accounting but I want to make sure everyone feels that their funds are in expert hands (I am just saying that I am by no means an expert).
If anyone has any suggestions of other bookkeepers they might recommend please send their info to me because it’s something that we will want/need to pursue down the line and I’d rather get ahead of that now if possible to get even more organized.
Ava Raise
$30 to $35/hr
Ray makes a motion to increase my pay from $30-$40 based on the work that I’ve put forth to defend and promote CLTFA in the past ~2 years.
Miles seconds the motion.
Unanimous approval 5-0-0 vote stands.
I would like to note that I was going to humbly ask for a small first-time raise based on inflation and was surprised and grateful to hear the Board approve a $10 raise versus $5 - I didn’t know Ray was going to do that and I do not take these things lightly! I’m sincerely thankful for the opportunity to work for you all and to help further secure the future viability of our fishery. I enjoy going to meetings and fighting this important fight and would do it all for free if I could. I’m honored that you feel what I am doing/have done thus far is beneficial and I look forward to deepening connections with you all in the years to come.
CLTFA External organizational memberships to potentially consider joining
Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Associations (PCFFA)
Chris warns us that this is a Central Coast Organization so it might be difficult to become members but we should try.
Steve Scheiblaur is the President of the Alliance and I will reach out to him about us potentially being a member.
Usually when fishing organizations join other associations, it becomes a mutual partnership so it more often than not ends up being a break even situation financially.
Ray thinks this is a good idea and the more support/logos we can get on a letterhead when necessary the better.
I welcome other organizations from other places, these are just the 4 primary ones that I am familiar with; Feel free to send any info of other groups my way so I can learn more about them and if we’d want to potentially join.
I will total the estimation of joining these organizations and put that figure to the board for a vote; I’m still waiting to receive figures but will communicate that info as soon as I receive responses.
Marketing/Website
Stickers
John Hoadley - Updated logo option for 2025 merch/stickers
Here is a sticker option too that John/his wife Lindsey provided after the meeting.
I will follow up with them on getting stickers made and I’ll keep everyone posted on new shirts/merchandise for this year as we get to it in the next month or so.
The board will make this vote in an email thread separate to this meeting to move forward with sticker production based on cost.
Once the stickers are made, we will send them to members individually or wait to distribute at our spring meeting (would be more cost efficient) and we will send a bunch to Tom Mason for him to distribute to all permit holders in the state along with a recruitment letter (that I will finalize once we get the stickers).
Classifieds
Jace Kennedy (Ray’s son), who is a lobster wholesaler, asked me to send out his Craigslist link last week for some gear he was trying to sell (I believe he’s sold out now); I am reminding this group that if anyone ever has a similar request like that to sell something or conversely if you are in need of something/looking to buy something, don’t hesitate to ask especially because this is likely more front of mind as we wrap up the season.
Open Discussion
Ray thanks everyone for joining and for staying on through this long meeting - We wish you the best of luck throughout the rest of this season; Ray emphasizes that lobster fishing is really great when the season starts, but it’s ok when the season is over too, and he thinks we’re all feeling that right now, which the room agrees with.
Ray ends the meeting at 17:49.